The Trail to Enlightenment

Life and Teachings of Jiddu Krishnamurti

Doubts about elementals, astral body & schemes

Jiddu Krishnamurti Questions Theosophy Doubts about elementals, astral body & schemes

This Question contains 1 reply, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Author 1 year, 8 months ago.

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  • #548


    I finished reading Part 1. I have some doubts. Since they are connected to each other I decided to put forth the questions in the one post itself.

    1. We humans started developing the astral body only in the fourth race. Is it correct to say that until then the mineral, vegetable and animal kingdom received no affection/love from us and so they had no scope to evolve? In other words, is it right to say that the mineral/vegetable/animal kingdom was in dormant states until humans developed feelings (astral bodies) which happened only in the fourth race?

    2. The fourth chain, fourth round, the third globe was on planet Mars. Since Mars was the physical globe, it is logical to say that on Mars we developed a human kingdom. What kind of kingdom/life was it?

    3. I am not clear on whether the different schemes of evolution happen concurrently or one is in the dormant state while other is happening.
    Also, why is it that Vulcan scheme is so advanced while Neptune is lagging behind Earth scheme?

    4. Is it correct to say that we first got the causal body and soul in the fifth race i.e. Aryan? Because only in this race did we develop the concept of mind/mental body.
    If the above conclusion is correct, then can we say that our actions till we were a part of the fourth race (including when we were a part of the animal kingdom) bear no effect on our karma?
    4.1. Does the soul take birth in each race one after the other?

    5. Please correct me if I am wrong. Each thought that we think, each feeling that we feel is converted to the elementals. Now elementals, if they don’t get fuel (i.e. sustained thought/feeling, or in other words, worship), they die. But if they indeed get sufficient fuel (worship), then those elementals would follow the downward arc and take a birth into the mineral kingdom. Does it mean that by thinking of the constant thoughts, by feeling the same feelings, we give birth to the entirely new souls?
    Can we say the same about deities? Deity, being an elemental, that too which has been consistently fed with fuel (worship), does it take a birth in the mineral kingdom at some point of time in future?
    Another subquestion for deities – just like how malicious deities impact the surrounding adversely, could there be such a thing as good deities that impact Nature positively?
    And exactly at what point do they make their impact? Do they still get born in the mineral kingdom after they are done impacting the surrounding?
    I am not really clear on this concept, so any holistic explanation on this is appreciated.

    6. We think because of the mental body and not because of the brain. However, the brain is where our memory is stored. A thought is always formed with a memory. Even if it is a non-verbal thought, it must consist of a certain memory (correct?). So can we say that mental body never works by itself bur requires brain all the time to function?

    • This Question was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by  Chandan Rath. Reason: Tags added
  • #550


    It would perhaps be easier to ask separate questions. Answers would then be easy to understand.

    Answer 1 (out of 6 questions)

    The human kingdom is characterised by a fully functional astral body from the very beginning itself. Development (i.e. refinement) of the astral body for the human kingdom has happened ever since the very first race. The fourth race, however, gave a major thrust towards this refinement, which is described as development of the astral body in the book. This has also been explained in the chapter that while human beings had the astral and mental bodies, they were developed in turns.

    The second question, but written under the same question no. 1.

    No it is not right to say so. Evolution can without all this, as had been the case in earlier Rounds and Chains. But affection and love quickens evolution. That is why evolution is an accelerating process.

    The third question, but written under the same question no.1.

    No, the mineral/vegetable/animal kingdoms were not in a dormant state until the fourth race. We many tend to think like that if we misunderstand what “development” of astral body means. It is refinement; these bodies were already fully developed in the sense you are looking at it. Moreover, evolution of other kingdoms of life is independent of development (or refinement) of human kingdom bodies.

    What also needs to be understood in general is, evolution of any kingdom of life always helps in speeding up evolution of all lower kingdoms of life. That is the reason, and a very logical reason, why evolution is an accelerating process.

    This answer (answer to your point 1) is already too long. Let me answers the other questions separately, as otherwise it may get too confusing for other users.

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